No Retreat, No Surrender? Sometimes, yes...

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No Retreat, No Surrender? Sometimes, yes...

Postby Captain America » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:05 pm

What I find interesting here is that most states require a "must retreat policy" when initially threatened, but no longer is that the case in Florida. When a good law-abiding citizen retreats, what the heck happens when your retreat is thwarted, and your attempted, but unsuccessful, retreat results in a huge loss of energy that is now needed to physically defend yourself?

(You can always legally defend yourself when your life is absolutely threatened, but sometimes retreating is a bad tactic, Florida's recent law gives an individual an additional option, legally speaking.)

Fla. jogger won't be charged for shooting teen

Published January 12, 2011

TAMPA, Fla. – A pistol-packing jogger in Florida won't be charged for shooting and killing a teenager who attacked him during a midnight run.

Prosecutors said Tuesday they are convinced Thomas Baker acted in self defense when he fired eight shots at 18-year-old Carlos Mustelier near Tampa in November .

Prosecutors say Florida's "stand-your-ground" law was a factor in their decision. The law, passed in 2005, gives people the right to use deadly force as long as they "reasonably believe" it is necessary to stop another person from hurting them.

Baker told police he reached for his gun when the teen punched him in the face. Baker has a concealed weapons permit.

The teen was hit four times in the chest, back and buttocks. He died at the scene.


Information from: St. Petersburg Times,

Read more: ... z1ArOWUAZf
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No Retreat, No Surrender? Sometimes, yes...

Postby San Soo Sifu » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:16 am

Hey Captain, most excellent article that you found there!

I wrote an 19-page essay on the right of justifiable self-defense and the State of Oregon Law, with both Statute Laws and Case Laws cited. (As everyone who is anyone knows; I don't do things half-assed. What I wrote is university level/quality paper.)

Here is an excerpt from my research paper, that deals with the very topic at hand...

Jon Surritt wrote:

Jon Surritt wrote:No Duty To Retreat:
Oregon Supreme Court affirms “No Duty To Retreat” in State of Oregon v. Sandoval.

Oregon case law does not require a person to avoid, or escape, a fight with someone else before using deadly force in self-defense, the Oregon Supreme Court ruled on Thursday, March 29, 2007.

The author of the Oregon Supreme Court’s unanimous decision, Justice W. Michael Gillette, wrote that Oregon law on self-defense states that…

“On a purely textual level, ORS 161.219 contains no specific reference to ‘retreat,’ ‘escape,’ or ‘other means of avoiding’ a deadly confrontation. Neither, in our view, does it contain any other wording that would suggest a duty of that kind. Instead, it sets out, in straight forward terms, a set of circumstances that justify a person’s use of deadly force (a reasonable belief that another person is using or about to use deadly force against a person) and does not purport to interpose any additional requirements beyond those circumstances.”

“In short, nothing in the wording of ORS 161.219 itself, or in its broader counterpart, ORS 161.209, suggests that persons who reasonably believe that another person is about to use deadly physical force against them must calculate whether it is possible to retreat from that threat before they use deadly physical force in self-defense.”

“We conclude, in short, that the legislature’s intent is clear on the face of ORS 161.219: The legislature did not intend to require a person to retreat before using deadly force to defend against the imminent use of deadly physical force by another.”

If one lives in the State of Oregon, and either teaches Kung-Fu San Soo, or is a student of Kung-Fu San Soo; then having this university level/quality paper that I wrote is indispensable! :D
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