Charlie Pope

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Charlie Pope

Postby Vincent » Sun May 25, 2008 12:49 pm

I have read his name in another post, but I am not familiar with him. Who is Charlie Pope, and what is his connection to Kung-Fu San Soo?
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Who is Charles Pope?

Postby Captain America » Sun May 25, 2008 4:35 pm

Who is Charles Pope?

Charles Pope wrote:From: CharlesPope1 4/1/2001 5:20 pm
To: ALL (1 of 13)
210.1

Many people are attracted to religions, and ideologies that limit them to their highest potential. Some invent them for their own selfish reasons. They use fear, ridicule, and threats of damnation to protect their controlling ambitions. Once you buy into self limiting systems you must sacrifice your own highest potential on the altar of the High Priest of Limitation in exchange for a pat on the head, and temporary reprieve from his all limiting damnation. Those who see through these machinations and ambitions of the High Priest are demonized and attacked from on "high." The pattern is always the same; it does not change. The High Priest is a needy and manipulating being. First he needs a person (preferably dead, so as not to get in his way) to deify, and then be the Vicar of (his representative on Earth), the one who elevates or demotes the lesser followers; and therein is his power. He has a keen eye for those persons who do not aid him in his ambitions and requires all to hold them in contempt of the God he now is the High Priest of. Most often the High Priest must do a redaction of the Gods? personal history, give him virtues he did not have in life and mask his shortcomings, but the truth has never stood in the way of the High Priest of Limitation.

I, Charles Pope of Fountain Valley, California; am an iconoclast. The sworn enemy of the High Priest of Limitation.

As a teacher of Real Kung-Fu San Soo, my true mission is to aid others in reaching their highest potential in this art. My aim is to help my students surpass my achievements by giving them the benefits of what I have learned so they can leap frog over me, boost them higher than myself or my teachers; because I am dedicated to their highest potential, and the highest potential of this Art.

The High Priest of Limitation attempts to create "Ring Pass Not" of achievement for others through the deification of Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo, and setting himself up as his High Priest. How does that limit others? By making Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo the highest possible teacher, or source, of Kung-Fu San Soo; and now that he is dead, he is out of reach. The best you can now do is a secondary contact through First Generation Masters, which you could never surpass since the most you can hope for is this lesser teachings, through a lesser teacher. In other words, you can never be as good, or better, than a First Generation Master because THEIR teacher is gone. So each generation is DEVOLVING, sacrificing their potential on the altar of lost opportunity. There may be a gifted person out there who can truly go beyond this "Ring Pass Not" (He or She will be opposed by the Priest Craft, and destroyed in their potential if they allow the self limiting poison of the High Priest of Limitation to guide them). Looking back on the past as the brightest light, seeing only an ever dimming future, obeying the edicts of the High Priest of Limitation is the only possible way for some of his victims to stay involved in his Kung-Fu San Soo. Too bad, but that is the price demanded by the High Priest of Limitation. Others will be demonized and "shouted down," to be cast out of polite society, as defined by the High Priest of Limitation. However, this age old snare can never enslave some. Freedom and unlimited potential always frustrates the power of death and limitation, and the High Priest of Limitation rages on, taking victims wherever he can!
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Who is Charlie Pope?

Postby Captain America » Sun May 25, 2008 4:54 pm

Who is Charlie Pope?

Charlie Pope wrote:From: CharliePope1 3/2/2001 8:36 pm
To: TraderRasta (32 of 50)
73.32 in reply to 73.30

I would love to meet you (Mark Hawkes), David Lorenson, and Craig Bohart; and any other of you phony, square-dancing pencil neck geeks. I look forward to you setting me "a right."

Please do not mistake this for a threat; it is my prayer. I would be in rapture to meet you three guys, at the same time.

Just think you, your righteous indignation, your two friends; and little old me!
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Seminar with a Sansooasaurus

Postby San Soo Sifu » Tue May 27, 2008 11:58 am

Robert Resann wrote:From: Robert @TMI (rresann) 2/26/2001 12:32 am
To: ALL (1 of 2)
191.1

Mr. Charles Pope has been to TMI ONE time. He has called the studio ONE time -- as of this posting.

But with this very limited contact, we have found an often like-minded San Soo practitioner in Charles Pope. His background in Kung-Fu San Soo began in 1967 when he began training under Frank Woolsey. He trained as Jimmy H. Woo pretty much trained Frank Woolsey in the early years. He studied with Frank Woolsey, until Frank closed down in 1974 - 1975.

It is like we went dinosaur fossil hunting; and instead came across a live Tyrannosaurus Rex! Or more precisely; a T-Rex with the lethal cunning, and predator skills of a Velociraptor!

Charles Pope is what we accidentally discovered on our fossil hunt as we delved into "Old San Soo," or "early" Jimmy H. Woo San Soo.

He is, in a manner of speaking, a living Sansooasaurus. He was there with Frank Woolsey's boys for many years, and speaks with first hand knowledge of those early days.

Many people can claim to be first generation students of Jimmy H. Woo.

But few who studied with Frank Woolsey still teach in the manner that Frank, with Jimmy H. Woo's guidance, himself taught. And Frank Woolsey studied with Jimmy H. Woo (and only Jimmy). If you watch the old tapes of Frank Woolsey and his boys; you see a significant and compelling difference between the power and viciousness of the early years of American San Soo, and the shift to what is now the predominant norm of fighting style in most studios.

Most who studied with Frank Woolsey transitioned over to Jimmy H. Woo's studio and changed. Charlie Pope did not. He stayed frozen in time, with a desire to be the best and smartest Kung-Fu San Soo fighter he could be; based on what he had learned from Frank Woolsey, and based his own extensive experiences.

If you want to "get some" from this evolutionary branch of the Kung-Fu San Soo lineage; if you want to see, hear, and feel the difference and power and effectiveness of this Kung-Fu San Soo lineage you will have the opportunity this June 2001.

For two six hour days, a Saturday and Sunday, you can attend a hands on seminar with Mr. Charles Pope hosted by the Threat Management Institute (TMI). Stay tuned for updates and specifics.

For those of you from out of town or state, please note than TMI is about 10-15 minutes from LAX, just off the 405 Freeway. Mark your calendars, and get ready for some good old fashioned warrior kung fu.
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Thank you again, Mr. Charles Pope!

Postby San Soo Sifu » Tue May 27, 2008 12:17 pm

Robert Resann wrote:From: Robert @TMI (rresann) 3/4/2001 3:35 am
To: ALL (7 of 21)
108.7 in reply to 108.6

Just in case some of you guys get easily confused, Charles Pope is saying that he watched a VIDEOTAPE of some really good practitioners of "New San Soo," that we showed him; when he came by TMI today.

Charlie Pope gave Sean Scott and myself a private lesson, to start to get us up to speed, on the intellectual and mechanical aspects of the "Old San Soo;" so that we can be of better assistance to him, when he gives his seminar this coming June.

He showed several things that I had not thought about before, and/or had not thought about in the way Charlie Pope taught, and does certain components of fighting. But the more I thought about what Charlie Pope said, and showed, during the afternoon, and especially while prowling my section of the Yardhouse Saturday night; the more impressed with his insights, the more excited about the potential improvements possible to an old man such as myself, and the more eager I became to practice what I had the pleasure to have been shown.

It was humbling, but it was a good humbling, to once again feel like a white belt. I felt a bit clumsy, but nevertheless filled with excitement knowing that I was beginning a new phase of learning and development in the most awesome and devastating martial art and science and craft of hand to hand combat devised by man, Kung-Fu San Soo. If I sound overdramatic, it is because the time with Charlie Pope was outstanding.

I, of course, will never be the world class fighter that Charlie Pope has been, and still is. But he has helped -- and will help me -- to significantly improve my skills as both an instructor and practitioner of Real Kung-Fu San Soo. That is what is important to me.

Thank you again, Mr. Charles Pope!
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Vicious power

Postby San Soo Sifu » Tue May 27, 2008 12:21 pm

Robert Resann wrote:From: Robert @TMI (rresann) 3/6/2001 1:58 am
To: SifuDave (12 of 21)
108.12 in reply to 108.11

The short answer to why "you" would want to come to the seminar is "vicious power." Viscious power is the hallmark of Kung-Fu San Soo; as it was first taught in the USA, as Charlie Pope got it from Frank Woolsey, who got it from Jimmy H. Woo (and only Jimmy). Charlie Pope is as close, as you will ever get, to the hardcore teachings of the 1960s. Uncorrupted by the kinder, gentler New San Soo of the 1970s - present.

Keep in mind that the "New San Soo" is still better than anything else out there, and then imagine that if you tried to use it you were to get run over by a high tech bullet train. And that high tech bullet train is the "Old San Soo." Charlie Pope will present it in a way that I am sure that 99.9% of you have really never seen, nor felt, nor been taught.

Do the math. How many instructors spent many years in the 1960s learning Kung-Fu San Soo. The few that there are, were only in their early years of learning, at that time. The more analytical years, the years that these folks came to their current understanding of Kung-Fu San Soo came since then, after the art was "changed." These folks who still teach have been doing "New San Soo" for about 30 years, and at most a handful of years doing the "Old San Soo" (when they were relative novices.) Is it any wonder that the 1960s San Soo is not really well known. Not many were taught it. And the vast majority of learning came after. If you started in 1968, for example, you got 2-4 years or so with the old; and about 10 times that much with the new.

Charlie Pope never did the "new." He has only studied and field tested the original American San Soo style of vicious power; as taught by Frank Woolsey, who learned from Jimmy H. Woo (and only Jimmy).

What is so nice, is that we have Charlie Pope who is both that bullet train in mechanical precision; and a stone cold warrior with intelligence, all rolled into one living fossil package.
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If folks think of it as white and yellow belt stuff...

Postby San Soo Sifu » Tue May 27, 2008 12:23 pm

Robert Resann wrote:From: Robert @TMI (rresann) 3/8/2001 9:05 am
To: SifuDave (16 of 21)
108.16 in reply to 108.9


Dave Lorenson wrote:Does Charlie Pope really have enough new information about San Soo to present to you that you feel like a white belt again?


You were responding to what I wrote, "It was humbling, but it was a good humbling, to once again feel like a white belt. I felt a bit clumsy, but nevertheless filled with excitement..."

I do not consider myself a white belt in knowledge and teaching ability.

Quite the contrary.

But trying to execute the kinds of things Sean Scott and I already do, with the refinements and adjustments to the basic mechanics that Charlie Pope was having us do made both of us feel a bit awkward, initially. Trying to do 3 or 4 new mechanical adjustments at once will make most people feel like ?a white belt? for a short while. That is the sense of the term I meant it in.

We took those adjustments and taught them to our next civilian class and spent an hour and 20 minutes on that one lesson. Our guys absolutely loved it. And by the end of that hour and change they were doing it pretty dog gone well. And some of them were literally white belts.

Let me make a comparison. Several years ago, Sean Scott sent myself and Jeff Kus (he goes to Whittier, California) to a Gracie Camp (one 30 hour week). I suspected, and was correct that everything they had us do for that week was stuff I had watched on their basic tape series.

But I also was sure, and turned out to be correct, that the hands on instruction from Rorion Gracie and his assistants would make for a whole new world of understanding BECAUSE of the hands-on instruction. And because of who was teaching it.

Getting instruction from Charlie Pope, getting the benefit of his 34 years in being active and studying and analyzing the San Soo that he does (plus his scores of street encounters) was a similar type of thing. He told us we are 90% of the way there to begin with. (He was probably just being nice. Wait a minute, he really might have meant it. No one accuses Charlie Pope of being nice. What am I thinking?)

But as you know, an adjustment of 10% can sometimes mean the difference between night and day. 10% of a day is 2.4 hours. In that span it can be dark at the beginning and sunshine bright at the end. And, to be fair, sometimes 10% doesn?t mean much.

But the adjustments to the "Old San Soo," Jimmy H. Woo's preferred way of fighting, and how he did fight, that we teach benefit SIGNIFICANTLY from some of those 10% adjustments.

I waxed enthusiastic in my post on the lesson with Charlie Pope because it fell into the latter category.

The "Old San Soo" is just not practiced very much at all. It is actually NOT really understood. If folks think of it as white and yellow belt stuff not worthy of spending much time on, then you will find that most (not all); but most of those same folks have an understanding of power mechanics that is truly lacking. They would benefit greatly were they to be taught and study and practice those said mechanics.
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Two visitors to TMI

Postby San Soo Sifu » Tue May 27, 2008 12:28 pm

Robert Resann wrote:From: Robert @TMI (rresann) 4/1/2001 10:21 pm
To: ALL (1 of 9)
211.1

Two visitors to TMI

Interesting day yesterday, Saturday at TMI.

FIRST VISITOR:

For only the fourth time (the first to a regular class); Charlie Pope paid a visit to TMI. He taught the second technique of the day -- number 46 from our reprint of Frank Woolsey's Real Kung Fu. (To our regular class, that is.)

Some of our folks are quite experienced in combat, and some may have never had a fight in their life. But Charlie Pope would go to each and every pair of practitioners' and give pointers, and suggestions, and explanations; explaining the mechanics that make the technique a street usable technique. Just what you would expect from a good instructor -- because he IS a good instructor.

For someone who is such a ?brawler? and ?street thug? we had to tell Charlie Pope, as in his previous visit, to go a little harder so people could get a ?feel? of what the components of the lesson would feel like. He was going too easy, at times.

Make no mistake however, Charlie Pope is definitely no loveable fuzzball. No one who watches him move sees anything but a finely chiseled and experienced warrior. But he knows that slow is smooth and smooth is fast, in the sense that the Marines use the term. He knows that deliberate repetitive practice to build balance and power and accuracy is the cornerstone of how to train for serious street encounters.

He says to work out slow. Okay, big deal... that is what you are thinking, right? Well just for your information, that was also what I heard a lot from Jimmy H. Woo to the folks during workouts preceding the advanced class he taught at El Monte, California for the short 14 months I had the opportunity to attend. (That is what Frank Woolsey taught as well. But then, Frank Woolsey was also first generation, he studied with Jimmy H. Woo before any current instructor that I know of did.) If any of you are instructors or assistant instructors you know that making people go slow enough to TRAIN is an ongoing job.

Charlie Pope never knew Jimmy H. Woo. He never knew the man directly. He never talked to him. He knew Frank Woolsey personally, but had no particular respect for Frank Woolsey's character. But he respected his fighting abilities. He did go to El Monte, California to visit and observe what was going on there after Frank Woolsey quit teaching. He came away with the conclusions you have all come to know and love -- concluding what we at TMI refer to as the "New San Soo" to be a set of techniques referred to as whirly twirly, one punch wonders (to borrow Eric Johnson's phrase). Seriously lacking in the brutal and sudden viciousness that was characteristic of the "Old San Soo" ways.

He has continued to study basics and the "Old San Soo" ways (you know, the way Jimmy H. Woo would actually fight); to take his understanding of the fundamentals to a highly sophisticated level. He is a very talented "street thug."

SECOND VISITOR:

After class, our second visitor was someone who relayed some interesting facts about what it took to become a master of kung fu -- I am not focusing on Kung-Fu San Soo here; just general conventions of the times. (If you want to know whom it was, you can email me and I can help you get in touch with him. His name is not important... for this discussion.)

A traditional Master, he said, had to study and understand the Yin and Yang -- the balance of life and martial arts.

A second major requirement was that to be a master of kung fu, you both had to master and teach a fine art. This included the categories of poetry, calligraphy, sculpture, and painting. Of course, this was in addition to being a master of kung fu as well.

I have not studied traditional kung fu, so I certainly did not know these things.

This visitor currently has paintings hanging in Buddhist Temples in New York and California. You should have seen the beautiful work of ART that he brought in. He is a teacher of Karma Gardri (or the Camp Style of the Karmapas).

The specific piece of artwork he brought to the studio to show us was an iconograph of the God Vajrapani (a god who destroys inner demons who block personal development.)

(Sean Scott had talked to this individual a few times during the preceding week so we knew he was coming to TMI.)

The original painting (he brought a reproduction, as well, as a gift!) was about 16? x 24? (something like that) and virtually the whole painting was done dot by dot. Yes you read correctly -- DOT by DOT!

This beautiful painting took a YEAR of 4-hour days to complete. That is a LOT of work. DOT by DOT!

He spent ten years learning this truly traditional style of art; as he had a desire to be a master of kung fu in the truly traditional sense.

If ever you come to TMI, you need to spend some time looking at this picture to appreciate what this ARTIST has created. (It will be framed and mounted soon.)

I guess maybe that this is a sense of the term ?MARTIAL ARTIST? that even I am forced to accept as having real meaning.

If you were wondering if Charlie Pope was there, and what he was thinking while a group of us were standing there in appreciation of a traditional MARTIAL ARTIST; then all I can tell you is that Charlie Pope appreciated our compliments of "OUTSTANDING!"; and "That is a beautiful painting you did there Charlie!"
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"He seems pretty normal to me."

Postby San Soo Sifu » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:48 pm

Robert Resann wrote:From: Robert @TMI (rresann) 3/28/2001 2:26 am
To: ALL (5 of 5)
90.5 in reply to 90.4

When Charlie Pope was last at TMI; he spent a couple of hours after class with a couple of our Marines, and Cops, and a couple of students.

Later that week, Sergeant De La Cruz, who had not seen Charlie Pope before, was telling me about one time during the Gulf War. He went home on emergency leave as his Dad had died. And, other serious family problems were weighing on him. He was at the point of flat out not giving a rat's ass about much of anything. When he got into a fire-fight when he was back in the thick of it, in the Middle East (a couple of his buddies were going through some tough times of their own); he and those buddies were laughing as they were firing off rounds, and not being as "careful," as a "normal" person would be. That made Sergeant De La Cruz and his friends very dangerous warriors. They were literally fearless.

When Sergeant De La Cruz watched Charlie Pope, he had a flashback to that bad time in his life, and saw that same fearless attitude, backed up by intelligence and skill, in Charlie Pope. His immediate and correct conclusion was that this guy would be your worst nightmare in a fight.

On the other hand, First (1st) Sergeant Bell, who when we met him as a Gunny, we lovingly referred to him as our Psycho Gunny; stated his evaluation of Charlie Pope this way, "He seems pretty normal to me."
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Re: Charlie Pope

Postby masterJeff » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:53 pm

Interesting post, which has some credibility. If you think about it though, it's not really true. This would mean that Jimmy H. Woo was worse than his Great-Uncle, and his Great-Uncle was worse than their great-grandfather, and so on. They just kept getting worse. I think the truth is if you teach your students a good solid foundation, and good mechanics; then they put the work in, and have some athletic talent... the Art will continue and evolve. The problem is if their core mechanics are all messed up. Then, they build useless garbage, and the San Soo struggles to work. Old vs. New... they are still the same. One is smash mouth San Soo, which I love. The other is more refinement, which is also great! :D
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